Comments on Everything Is Pointless: Metamorphosis Complete

skidoo:"Topic for another discussion? That's a fal...

2008-02-24T11:25:00.000Z

skidoo:
"Topic for another discussion? That's a false premise. To the extent that we possess the illusion of free will, we can certainly "choose to believe" whatever we want."

It's a topic for another discussion because it doesn't affect the outcome of this argument, it just bugs me that you 'choose' to believe it, as it were.

When was the last time you simply chose between a bunch of different beliefs skidoo? What method did you use? If your choice was based on which belief was supported by empirical evidence, can you really say you would have chosen another belief in its place? If not, then how can you even say it was a choice? To have 'chosen' anything else would have been simply to deny what you truly believed, that empirical evidence is the strongest basis for a belief. I assume you came to that conclusion logically and didn't select it at random or something?

skidoo:
"Without purpose, the concept of freedom is absurd"

And if humans were made with a purpose, freedom would be less absurd how?

skidoo:
"It's only "liberating" in a mundane psychosocial way."

What's so mundane about that?

skidoo:
"Having the "freedom" to walk around in your cell doesn't change the fact that you're still in a cell."

What cell?!?

skidoo:
"I don't feel that life ought to have a purpose. I believe (based on the empirical evidence) that there is none."

I fully agree with both of these sentences. The difference is what conclusion we draw from them. If you think that knowledge of these facts bothers me as much as it seems to bother you, then you're the one that's deluded, not me.

skidoo:
"Faith is belief without evidence. The pursuit of a manufactured purpose is just another pursuit of faith."

No. Because a purpose that I assign myself (or as you say, 'manafacture') doesn't have to involve a belief without evidence. If I stated that emotions and experiences, things I can most certinaly verify empirically, are the purpose for my continued existence, how would it be 'faith' for me to believe my life has purpose?

Your last paragraph really bugs me because I don't like being compared to religious people unreasonably and that is exactly what you did. I'm sorry that your life sucks man, but don't tell me that I'm avoiding anything, as if you know me better than I do. I'm in possession of the same facts as you, I ponder them often, the only difference is that in your eyes I make the critical mistake of failing to be miserable about them. By claiming that everyone who doesn't agree with how you *feel* about life is deluded, you're just being an arrogant prick.

Tl; dr? I dislike you not for your pessimism but for being such a jerk about it. Ditto Louie.

Shit + Shit = Shit

2008-02-19T16:37:00.000Z

Shit + Shit = Shit

skidoo wrote: "Life sucks.."Wow. Please speak for ...

2008-02-18T23:44:00.000Z

skidoo wrote: "Life sucks.."

Wow. Please speak for yourself. :-)

PJK wrote: "First of all, belief is not a choice. ...

2008-02-18T16:37:00.000Z

PJK wrote: "First of all, belief is not a choice. One cannot 'choose to believe', though that's another topic for another discussion."

Topic for another discussion? That's a false premise. To the extent that we possess the illusion of free will, we can certainly "choose to believe" whatever we want.

PJK also wrote: "Second, in what sense is such a belief a 'delusion'?"

Because it's irrational. Without purpose, the concept of freedom is absurd (in the philosophical sense; c.f. Camus, etc.). It's only "liberating" in a mundane psychosocial way.

PJK also wrote: "It *IS* liberating, precisely because life's lack of 'purpose', other than that which we ascribe to it, means that we're not compelled to do anything. That seems to me to be the very definition of liberating."

Having the "freedom" to walk around in your cell doesn't change the fact that you're still in a cell.

PJK also wrote: "Life not having a point only matters if you feel that it ought to have one, as sacred slut alluded to."

I don't feel that life ought to have a purpose. I believe (based on the empirical evidence) that there is none.

PJK also wrote: "That you don't agree doesn't make thinking otherwise 'anesthetic'."

It's simply a question of evidence. Ascribing some artificial purpose to life is just another way of avoiding the cold hard reality of existence. Ultimately no better than faith in religious mumbo jumbo.

Faith is belief without evidence. The pursuit of a manufactured purpose is just another pursuit of faith. Granted, your manufactured sense of purpose may be more fun and more temporally rewarding, but the end is no different.

Life sucks, and then you die.

Skidoo said:"But choosing to believe that the appa...

2008-02-18T10:44:00.000Z

Skidoo said:
"But choosing to believe that the apparent pointlessness of life is liberating is just another anesthetic delusion."

First of all, belief is not a choice. One cannot 'choose to believe', though that's another topic for another discussion. Second, in what sense is such a belief a 'delusion'? It *IS* liberating, precisely because life's lack of 'purpose', other than that which we ascribe to it, means that we're not compelled to do anything. That seems to me to be the very definition of liberating.

Life not having a point only matters if you feel that it ought to have one, as sacred slut alluded to. That you don't agree doesn't make thinking otherwise 'anesthetic'.

anonymous wrote:"One thing that I find helpful is ...

2008-02-14T15:32:00.000Z

anonymous wrote:
"One thing that I find helpful is the fact existence lacking meaning does not have to become a source of despair but a source of human freedom."

I hear this argument often from fellow non-believers. But choosing to believe that the apparent pointlessness of life is liberating is just another anesthetic delusion.

I dont think is a source of human freedom. Without...

2008-01-31T16:46:00.000Z

I dont think is a source of human freedom. Without meaning its easy to follow an "anything goes" attitude and its also a risk of moral relativism and nihilism.

its inherent to human reason to ask such questions...

2008-01-31T16:40:00.000Z

its inherent to human reason to ask such questions, its not a mistake on our part, its just the way we are designed. One thing that I find helpful is the fact existence lacking meaning does not have to become a source of despair but a source of human freedom.

So what do I do?

2008-01-30T16:07:00.000Z

So what do I do?

Did you kill yourself?

2008-01-25T04:48:00.000Z

Did you kill yourself?

I understand and yet I can't agree. To me, the rea...

2008-01-18T19:47:00.000Z

I understand and yet I can't agree.

To me, the real mistake we've made is imagining there ought to be a point.